Early recursion of bladder cancer - within 2 moths of TURBT operation

8 months 2 weeks ago #61942 by Krish1983
Update:

 I have cystoscopy and TURBT on 8th Aug, 2023. Biopsy report shows
1. Negative for Malignancy (No Cancer)
2. Some distorted scar with calcification

After seeing the report doctor told:
1. Its was scar from 1st TURBT, and not cancer this time
2. Next appointment is after 3 moths to recheck again - doctor told I may get a bigger scar next time

So this is good news for me as Cancer is not back rather it was a post operative change of 1st TURBT.


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8 months 3 weeks ago #61932 by Krish1983
Update:

I have done the following 2 tests:

1. Urine Cystoscopy - result shows negative
2. Pelvis MRI - shows 0.4 mm growth with mild perivesical fat stranding.

After checking in google - I rushed to doctor as I thought my cancer has become stage 3 because of the finding "mild perivesical fat stranding"

This is what doctor told:
1. 90% chance its a scar and not cancer as its in same place as before, where they operated
2. 1% chance of this being muscle invasive or stage 2 or 3. He told "mild perivesical fat stranding" maybe because of post operation (TURBT) effect from 1st operation.

My cystoscope is scheduled coming Tuesday.

Request all to suggest/comment .

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8 months 3 weeks ago #61930 by Alan
Hey Joea73,

Thanks for clarifying about low grade and high being different gene mutations, and the inability to change from low to high. I believe I had replied to an earlier post it was possible to go from low to high grade even if unusual. I stand corrected! I am never unhappy or embarrassed when someone knows better, especially with science!

DX 5/6/2008 TAG3 papillary tumor .5 CM in size. 2 TURBS followed by 6 instillations of BCG weekly with a second round of 6 after a 6 week wait.
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8 months 3 weeks ago #61929 by joea73
There are always exceptions, but it is known that low grade will not change to high grade.   Cancer rise because of malfunction/mutation of genes.   Sometimes low grade and high grade are different cancers because low grade and high grade tumors have different profile at gene mutations.  60% of low grade tumors have mutation in genes (FGFR) from which Fibroblast Growth Factor Receptor (FGFR) protein is produced.  When a cell which makes up the lining of bladder gets old, our body sends a signal to replace it with new cells.  Only when FGFR receives the signal, FGFR initiates metabolic process to produce new cells.   When FGFR gene is mutated, sometimes FGFR protein initiates metabolic process of producing new cells even  without receiving the signal from our body.  In this way, cancer cell continue to multiply without stop, growing the size of the cancer tissue.   But low grade cancer will not break through the basement or basal layer of the lining of bladder  into connective tissue and to muscle tissue.  

High grade tumor tend to show mutations of different genes, especially TP53.  P53 protein which is produced based on TP53 gene template plays very important role in suppressing the creation of tumor.  P53 protein involves in initiating apoptosis ( self death) of cells of which DNA was damaged and cannot be repaired.  When P53 protein does not function properly because TP53 gene mutation, our body will allow  DNA damaged with gene mutation cell to live and reproduce.   High grade tumor if not treated can progress to connective tissue and muscle tissue.  As muscle tissue have many  blood vessels and lymphatic vessels. bladder cancer cells can get into a blood vessel and lymphatic vessel and circulate in the body and land to other organs and grow as metastasis.   

There are a few generally accepted reasons of high recurrence of non muscle bladder cancers.  One is that fragments from the original tumor implant to the lining of bladder during the initial TURBT.   The guidelines recommend that when urologist thinks it is low grade in cystoscopy, intravesical chemotherapy is administered within 24 hours.  Statistically, this procedure has reduced about 10% of recurrence.   Another reason is that toxicity which was excreted from kidneys, which could have contributed in the rising of cancer was also affecting other parts of the lining of the bladder.  
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8 months 4 weeks ago #61926 by Krish1983
Thank you for your write up.
Today I am going for check up, wish me luck :)

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8 months 4 weeks ago - 8 months 4 weeks ago #61925 by Alan
Welcome Krish1983.

Ta, low grade is about as good as you can get if you get bladder cancer. The bad news is bladder cancer does have a fairly high recurrence. I am not sure there are many well-known reasons why so quickly it came back, and yes, it can but often doesn't morph into high grade. Muscle invasive would read T2 or stage 2, which would be muscle invasive. 0.5mm is considered a small tumor but, none of these are good. If possible, I'd keep a copy of your records handy as reference not just for you but, also for a second opinion if needed. The normal protocol on low grade, non-invasive bladder cancer is continued checkups every 3 months. It reads like you got checked sooner. If your insurance in India allows it, a second opinion may be a good idea for fresh eyes that often confirms the diagnosis. Which you should be getting anyway with the recurrence as a second TURB. Aim for the best hospital or practice you can find as you are aware, no cancer is good.

Keep posting as you go. Someone should be able to help you along.

DX 5/6/2008 TAG3 papillary tumor .5 CM in size. 2 TURBS followed by 6 instillations of BCG weekly with a second round of 6 after a 6 week wait.
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