BCG Treatments

1 year 11 months ago #57096 by Regor
Replied by Regor on topic BCG Treatments

sara.anne wrote: Jacko is correct... the “rotisserie” technique has been pretty well debunked and most up-to-date urologists don’t even mention it.
Sara Anne


Interesting ... the “rotisserie” technique is the Kaiser Permanente procedure, documented and explained to all Bladder Cancer patients. Seemed to make sense to me, otherwise, the BCG cocktail is only 2oz, and I don't see how it would cover all surfaces of the bladder.

TURBT Jan 2019; Diag: CIS
Induction BCG (Mar 19) /Maint BCG (Aug 19)
TURBT Nov 2019; Diag: CIS
Repeat Induction BCG - Jan 2020 Complete

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1 year 11 months ago #57095 by sara.anne
Replied by sara.anne on topic BCG Treatments
Jacko is correct... the “rotisserie” technique has been pretty well debunked and most up-to-date urologists don’t even mention it.

Sara Anne

Diagnosis 2-08 Small papillary TCC; CIS
BCG; BCG maintenance
Vice-President, American Bladder Cancer Society
Forum Moderator

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1 year 11 months ago #57094 by Jacko
Replied by Jacko on topic BCG Treatments
Hi tgrocky

My diagnosis is similar to yours, high grade CIS; 2 TURBS followed by 6 initial BCGs and then now 3 maintenance BCGs with 3 more to go in a few months. All this started last May (18). I went through a similar problem with the decision re bladder removal/BCG because my Uro said (I thought he said) 'BCG has a 25% strike rate'. I misunderstood; I thought he was saying BCG has 25% chance of being successful. What he should have said, and later clarified, was that for me, with high grade CIS, if I go the BCG way, the CIS has a 25% chance of reoccurring within 5 years....much better than what I thought I heard originally. He later corrected that to 35% based on the heavy coverage of cancer cells he originally found in TURB 1. Anyway after having the 2 TURBS and 6 BCGs no cancer cells were detected in Dec 18. However vigilance is important hence the maintenance phase.

With respect to the catheter, the nurses decided that I needed the smallest available to make things more comfortable plus they use two tubes of the anaesthetic gel and wait a few minutes for it to take effect. We have found that this makes it a more pleasant experience.

My instructions were to stop drinking 6 hours prior to the procedure and thus for me to 'stick it out' for 2 hours is not a problem. However I am sharing the Australian experience whereby I stay in hospital, lying down, for the full period, catheter inserted and closed off. The requirement to roll over here has been downgraded but I do. Not so easy when you are piped up to the bag but still possible. I listen to talking books to help with passing the time. After two hours the nurse opens the tap and out it drains and then the catheter is removed. I still do the bleach thing for 6 hours following removal.

Stick with it, treat it as an interesting experience, it's doing you good, look what it did for me. Know that the alternative would be far more invasive...........

Jacko.

CIS diagnosed May 18
2 TURBS
6 BCGs 2018
3 Maintenance BCGs 2019
Return of CIS Sept 2019
Bladder, prostate and urethra removal Oct 2019

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1 year 11 months ago #57092 by Regor
Replied by Regor on topic BCG Treatments

tgrocky wrote:
Can anyone tell me do es it hurt when then insert that cather in?
Also do they typically leave it in during the two hour treatment?
Does it hurt much when they take the cather out?
Is it hard to hold the BCG in during the two hours?
tgrocky


My current experience (CIS and just finished week #3 of Induction phase).
They use a numbing jelly prior to catheter insertion. I wouldn't say it's painless, I would say uncomfortable. Removal of catheter - painless, quick, less uncomfortable than when it goes in.

Holding BCG, I stop all eating/drinking 2.5-3 hours prior to procedure, I relieve myself as I walk into the office, and the catheter removes all urine, prior to BCG injection. Once home from the quick procedure, the process of laying down and rolling a 1/4 turn each 15 minutes continues for 2 hours. I have found that laying on the stomach makes the urge to urinate worse, so I do do left side, right side, back, then stomach,,, to push that position to last.

And don't forget, after procedure, after 2 hours of playing rotisserie and turning every 15 minutes for 2 hours, then you expel the BCG and need to place bleach in the toilet with expelled urine for 20 minutes, for the next 6 hours.

TURBT Jan 2019; Diag: CIS
Induction BCG (Mar 19) /Maint BCG (Aug 19)
TURBT Nov 2019; Diag: CIS
Repeat Induction BCG - Jan 2020 Complete

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1 year 11 months ago #57091 by sara.anne
Replied by sara.anne on topic BCG Treatments
Here is the deal with BCG. They instill it in the bladder with a very small catheter...one just big enough to let the solution flow...not like the one they use for cystoscopy which needs a camera attached. The catheter is removed immediately. You go home. Whole thing takes about 15 minutes.

You try to hold it in the bladder for two hours...sometimes you make the whole two hours, sometimes you don't. Then for a couple of hours you are "uncomfortable" (don't you love that description?) as you pee a lot. The first couple of BCG treatments usually don't have many side effects....probably fatigue. As the treatments continue the side effects may increase, which indicates that your immune system is responding, and this is what you want to happen.

I also had CIS and am now 10 years and 11 months cancer-free.


Sara Anne

Diagnosis 2-08 Small papillary TCC; CIS
BCG; BCG maintenance
Vice-President, American Bladder Cancer Society
Forum Moderator

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1 year 11 months ago #57089 by tgrocky
BCG Treatments was created by tgrocky
Hi all,

I am pretty sure I am going to go with BCG treatments for my Stage One High Grade Bladder Cancer with CIS.

Can anyone tell me do es it hurt when then insert that cather in?

Also do they typically leave it in during the two hour treatment?

Does it hurt much when they take the cather out?


Is it hard to hold the BCG in during the two hours?


Thanks for the help...


tgrocky

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