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Question on how tumors grow, etc.
I didn’t know where to put this question so I thought this would be as good a place as any.
I am puzzled on how bladder cancer tumors develop or grow…I’m not sure how to word my question.
I have read a lot of stories from people with bladder cancer. One person may not discover a tumor for many months after the first symptoms appeared and the tumor turns out to be a stage 0, low grade. Another person may find the tumor very quickly and it is a stage 2, high grade. That is very confusing to me.
I understand the staging of BC, but, for example, can a tumor be a stage 4 without every being a stage 0? And, can a stage 0, if left untreated, become a stage 4?
Thank you for any information on this. I have been very confused by it.
08/16/16 – TURBT – 1 tumor, T1HG, 7.5 cm x 7.5 cm x 1.8 cm, non-invasive papillary.
BCG treatments (15 doses total – last March, 2018). As of latest cysto on June 30, 2024, cancer free!5 Replies-
I am one that has recurrences vary often that is why I go every 3 months for my checkup. It’s just like eating, you got to do it!!!!
T1,NO,MO battling bladder cancer since 2005
I think your explanation is really well done Sara Anne.
It is sometimes difficult to grasp what the doctors are telling you, particularly when your diagnosis has come as a shock.
John, you will have read that bladder cancer has a nasty habit of recurring, which is why it is essential that once diagnosed, you attend all your scheduled checks – so that IF a recurrence happens, it will be most likely to be in a very early stage (0), and can be removed before it can progress. I like to think of it as a small weed starting to grow in a garden- get it out, spray the weedkiller, but keep checking now and again that no more seedlings have appeared.
John, I think that you are mixing up stage and grade. A “high grade” tumor is one in which the cells are rapidly dividing and this type is especially dangerous since they are much more likely to spread (metastasize) than “low grade” tumors.
“Stage” (0, 3, 4 etc) refers to how much the cancer has already spread. A stage 0, for example, is still completely localized in the original site; stage 4 is one that has metastasized and spread into the lymph nodes and into other sites of the body away from the original site.
Every cancer starts as stage 0….the one localized place where something starts to go haywire. As time goes by, and the cancer grows, it becomes stage 1 and then on. No tumor “starts” as a stage 4. When someone has a newly diagnosed cancer, and it is stage 4, that cancer has been growing undetected for a long time. It did not just suddenly appear….although it may have just been found, it has been there for quite a while.
No one can tell you what the future holds based on the size of your initial tumor. The only thing that might have happened is that there are already other tumors someplace. I am not saying that to scare you….we all have that possibility. This is why the doctors do things like CT scans and many other tests so that that can do their best to detect such possibilities early.
You may be confusing the fact that bladder cancer has the nasty habit of coming back…ie, new tumors showing up in the bladder after some have been removed, with metasteses where the original tumor has already spread.
Right now, all you can say, is that you HAD bladder cancer tumors and that they were removed. GONE. And we will hope that they stay that way…just as they have for most of us.
Sara Anne
Diagnosis 2-08 Small papillary TCC; CIS
BCG; BCG maintenance
Vice-President, American Bladder Cancer Society
Forum Moderator
Thanks Sara.
It seems like some tumors begin growing in the muscle, for example, and some don’t. Is that correct?
The reason I ask is because, as you know, one of my tumors was very large and, because of this and the fact that I had two of them, there is a good chance I will have a recurrence episode. From what I’ve read the chance that it can come back at a higher stage is a distinct possibility. So I’m just wondering if a recurrence can be a stage 2, 3, or 4 without being a stage 0 or 1 first?
08/16/16 – TURBT – 1 tumor, T1HG, 7.5 cm x 7.5 cm x 1.8 cm, non-invasive papillary.
BCG treatments (15 doses total – last March, 2018). As of latest cysto on June 30, 2024, cancer free!
John, the “original” stage of the tumor is that determined when the tumor was first found. It may have been there (and probably was) for years, not showing any symptoms. If someone is diagnosed with a stage 4 tumor, this just means that it was not diagnosed earlier when it was going through all the other stages.
Some people have no symptoms at all until a cancer is very advanced, and some have symptoms very early. It depends on the characteristics of the tumor (and not all are exactly the same, even with the “same” diagnosis), it location ..near a blood vessel where it might cause some bleeding for example, and other issues going on with the patient.
Hope this helps?
Sara Anne
Diagnosis 2-08 Small papillary TCC; CIS
BCG; BCG maintenance
Vice-President, American Bladder Cancer Society
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