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Invasive Bladder Cancer
** This thread discusses the content article: Invasive Bladder Cancer **
Bladder Cancer is considered to be invasive if cancer cells have gone through the bladders lining and are present in the muscle.
When asked what five things they wish they had been told about their invasive bladder cancer
at the beginning, these were the top five answers.
- Always get a second opinion from a major center that deals with a high volume of bladder cancer. Studies have shown that the experience of the Urological Surgeon, Oncologist and Pathologists can make a difference in outcomes. Read More
- What are the treatments for invasive bladder cancer? Read More
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- What does stage and grade mean? Read More
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- When you go to your doctor take along a list of your questions and someone to take notes.
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- You are not alone. There are an estimated 1/2 million bladder cancer survivors in the USA alone. This bladder cancer community is free and open to all allowing them to share support and gather information.
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Cynthia Kinsella
T2 g3 CIS 8/04
Clinical Trial
Chemotherapy & Radiation 10/04-12/04
Chemotherapy 3/05-5/05
BCG 9/05-1-06
RC w/umbilical Indiana pouch 5/06
Left Nephrectomy 1/09
President American Bladder Cancer Society9 Replies-
Cynthia, You mentioned taking along a list of questions for the doctor. Have we a recommended list of questions on site? If not I would like to see people’s recommendations for essential questions to ask. Julie
Volunteer Coordinator
ABLSC
Yes, further up in the thread, Cynthia mentioned that this landed here by mistake from the blog section. It is supposed to automaticlaly go to the right section but it did not.
She’s planning on moving it to the correct section of the forum.
Mike
Age 54
10/31/06 dx CIS (TisG3) non-invasive (at 47)
9/19/08 TURB/TUIP dx Invasive T2G3
10/8/08 RC neobladder(at 49)
2/15/13 T4G3N3M1 distant metastases(at 53)
9/2013 finished chemo -cancer free again
1/2014 ct scan results….distant mets
2/2014 ct result…spread to liver, kidneys, and lymph system
My opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of ABLCS or anyone else. I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.
Am I missing something??? How did this thread get posted under “Metastatic Bladder Cancer”?
It appears that the American Cancer Society agrees with you:
Another factor that is important in predicting outlook is whether or not the cancer is invasive. Transitional cell cancers start in the cells lining the bladder. If the cancer stays in this layer of cells, without growing into the deeper layers, it is called noninvasive. If the cancer grows beneath the top layer, into the lamina propria or even deeper into the muscle layer, it is called invasive. Invasive cancers are more likely to spread and are harder to treat. You may also see a bladder cancer described as superficial or non-muscle invasive. The term includes both noninvasive tumors as well as any invasive tumors that have not grown into the main muscle layer of the bladder
As you can see from the quote, it is clear that there are different ways the terms are used. One being to specificy if it is muscle invasive or not and the other being anything beyond the topmost layer.
eMedicine agrees with me:
Bladder cancers are classified (staged) by how deeply they invade into the bladder wall, which has several layers. Many physicians subdivide bladder cancer into superficial and invasive disease. Superficial bladder cancer is limited to the innermost linings of the bladder (known as the mucosa and lamina propria). Invasive bladder cancer has at least penetrated the muscular layer of the bladder wall.
It is a very good point that you raise though as doctor’s and different web sites also refer to it differently. Some are very specific about only referring to “non-muscle-invasive” or “muscle invasive”. People should be specific when speaking with their urologists to understand the exact stage beyond using the word invasive.
Mike
Age 54
10/31/06 dx CIS (TisG3) non-invasive (at 47)
9/19/08 TURB/TUIP dx Invasive T2G3
10/8/08 RC neobladder(at 49)
2/15/13 T4G3N3M1 distant metastases(at 53)
9/2013 finished chemo -cancer free again
1/2014 ct scan results….distant mets
2/2014 ct result…spread to liver, kidneys, and lymph system
My opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of ABLCS or anyone else. I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.
I don’t know about other people but in my case the use of invasive and non-invasive referred to the nature of the tumor which was at least as important in my decision making process as the depth of the tumor. Rick
Rick
T1 is a hard diagnosis due to the fact it startles the fence between non invasive and invasive bladder cancer. If your pathology shows T0, T2, T3 your treatment options are often much clearer. With an originating diagnosis of T1 bladder cancer the choice of treatment or surgery is often given and the right choice potentially can be determined only in hindsight.
I do think the term superficial bladder cancer should ever be used as it may tend to trivialize the diagnosis, for lack of a better term we use non invasive. But whatever it is called the key to long term survival is close surveillance and proper timely treatment.
I plan to move this to the non invasive section later today. We have had a technical problem that we thought was worked out with where things are posting to the forum when brought in from other areas of the site using the discuss button. I will be meeting with our web master today and wish to leave this in place so we can tweak our software setting to make sure it posts to the proper place from now on.
Cynthia Kinsella
T2 g3 CIS 8/04
Clinical Trial
Chemotherapy & Radiation 10/04-12/04
Chemotherapy 3/05-5/05
BCG 9/05-1-06
RC w/umbilical Indiana pouch 5/06
Left Nephrectomy 1/09
President American Bladder Cancer Society
When we refer to it as “invasive”, we are using the shorthand for “muscle invasive”. T1 is kind of in between “superficial” and “muscle invasive”. I hate that superficial word also but I don’t want to get too hung up on semantics.
While T1 is invasive into the into the submucosa, the submucosa is not muscle so it is therefore not “muscle invasive”.
Should this be in the “Invasive Bladder Cancer” section of the forum instead of here in “Metastatic bladder cancer”?
Mike
Age 54
10/31/06 dx CIS (TisG3) non-invasive (at 47)
9/19/08 TURB/TUIP dx Invasive T2G3
10/8/08 RC neobladder(at 49)
2/15/13 T4G3N3M1 distant metastases(at 53)
9/2013 finished chemo -cancer free again
1/2014 ct scan results….distant mets
2/2014 ct result…spread to liver, kidneys, and lymph system
My opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of ABLCS or anyone else. I am not a doctor nor do I play one on TV.
Where as T1 has invaded the lining or the submucosa of the bladder it is usually listed under non invasive. I personally feel it should be listed under invasive or given its own classification so that the seriousness of it is not missed.
There is a very good diagram on this page showing the bladder and types of growth.
http://www.connecttoresearch.org/publications/86
Tumors invading the bladder muscle (invasive bladder cancer)
In this case, bladder cancer has grown into the thick muscle of the bladder wall, but has not spread to the lymph nodes or distant organs.http://www.uroweb.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Guidelines/05%20TaT1%20Bladder%20Cancer.pdf
Approximately 75-85% of patients with bladder cancer present with disease confined to the mucosa (stage Ta-
CIS) or submucosa (stage T1).http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/348.cfm
Noninvasive Bladder Cancer
The majority of bladder cancers are transitional cell carcinomas (TCCs) that are noninvasive, or confined to the lining of the bladder.
Cynthia Kinsella
T2 g3 CIS 8/04
Clinical Trial
Chemotherapy & Radiation 10/04-12/04
Chemotherapy 3/05-5/05
BCG 9/05-1-06
RC w/umbilical Indiana pouch 5/06
Left Nephrectomy 1/09
President American Bladder Cancer Society
I think your definition of invasive is incorrect. My cancer was invasive by the fact that it had grown in to the first layer of the bladder… not in to the muscle… I feel the description given may be misleading to those new to the subject… :silly:
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