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Arthritic Side Effects from BCG
Rosemary, on another thread your comment about arthritis triggered a memory. Over the past several months of BCG, I have had a LOT of arthritic symptoms develop, including arthritic growth and pinching of nerves in my spinal column which I had surged a couple years ago. So now I take anti-inflammatories for that and yet the arthritic conditions continue to develop back there and in other joints such as hands, shoulders, etc.
Is this a condition commonly developed from BCG and what can one do about it, if anything? I’m curious if others have experienced these conditions?
Bob
T1 G3
Age 66
DX April 2008
TURB April 2008
Last BCG (#15) April 200920 Replies-
Thank you Pat for your response. I will have him do some Tests.
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Kathy…i think its always used for TURB…at least at major hospitals to my knowledge……
Transurethral resection generally takes place in the hospital with the patient under general anesthesia. The doctor inserts a cystoscope, a small, lit camera, in through the urethra and into the bladder. A small tool with a wire loop at the end is inserted through the cystoscope. A high-frequency electric current passes through the wire tool removing and burning cancer cells. This method is called fulguration.
PAT -
Pat, when do they administer high frequency current? Another scarey thing going on while were “out”?
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Shelby there is little reported syndrome associated with TURB..which is simply called transurethral resection syndrome….
which is the absorption of glycine from irrigation solution during TUR that the liver cannot metabolize, resulting in increased serum ammonia.
I would definately have your doctor do some blood tests for this. Here is a link to a PDF file on it.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/ggn88k5q6jk97l0r/
Pat -
I haven’t had the BCG treatments but the arthritic Side Effects are there.I had no pain whatsoever until after my first turbt. Since then I have had a hitch in my getalong. Seems like once I get moving I’m ok but it takes a bit to get moving. It is really bad in my feet and ankles. Even after a short drive or sitting period I really have to push myself to get moving due to the pain. I don’t know why, does this sound familiar to anyone?
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I never have heard about BCG and arthritis. This board has so much information. I am so glad I found you all.
And Ro, I like your hair. You look beautiful in your avatar.
Ta Grade 1
6 TURBS
15 BCG
dx Jan 07
Hello, Orpheus!!
The Celebrex trials were dropped because it seems that the subjects were having more episodes of heart attacks than general population.
All I can say is thank goodness for Celebrex.
I’m having an anniversary of sorts. I can’t remember the day I got married, or the day I got divorced but I remember the day that the arthritis came on me.
2 years ago tomorrow…Glad to get your input, Orpheus!
Ro
Rosemary
Age – 55
T1 G3 – Tumor free 2 yrs 3 months
Dx January 2006
I share the Psoriatic Arthritis/BCG syndrome. No doctor I have consulted seems to have ever heard of this connection. I take 200 mg of Celebrex daily and it seems to help quite a lot. I have also tried to increase my walking to at least a mile a day or more and I take a tablespoon of Norwegian cod liver oil daily. There were several studies started a few years ago with the purpose of finding out if Celebrex could be a palliative for BC. The studies were mysteriously dropped and I have not heard why. Does anyone know about these clinical trials?
Thanks very much, KathyK!
It’s so nice to get the validation. When my symptoms first presented themselves (like gangbusters, 2 years ago) it was an uphill battle to get the Doctor’s to listen to me. Thank goodness for Dr. Lamm, who supported my idea that the arthritis was triggered by the BCG. His way of saying it is that people who are “prone” to arthritis may have an arthritic response to treatment…
Well, my proneness runs pretty deep, and I’m afraid that the arthritis is here to stay. I’m not sure if it is a blessing or a curse, just because of the Celebrex issue…
My arthritis moves around, but right now seems to be settling in my feet.
This right thumb always give a fit, and my handwriting, at this point, makes me think that I should have become a Doctor. I used to have a beautiful handwriting….Old age, gray hair, arthritis and bladder cancer….sigh…:S
Ro
Rosemary
Age – 55
T1 G3 – Tumor free 2 yrs 3 months
Dx January 2006
One quick note: I forgot to mention that during my BCG treatments I started having pain in my thumb joint – that one you use to pick up a glass or hold the computer mouse. It would lock in two positions. Also BCG related. My personal belief is that the reactive arthritis affects the joints that have already had some arthritic damage.
I agree with you Kathy…..i think its vastly underreported..perhaps half of what we tell our physicians they don’t remember???….it could work both ways……thanks for a great link……..Pat
One week after my 6th BCG installation my left knee swelled up overnight and I had to use a walker to get to my Internist’s office. I had an X-ray and the report came back “mild arthritis”. Two days later my leg swelled from my ankle to groin. I went back to my Dr. and she sent me for an ultrasound to find out if it was caused by a blood clot. I wasn’t. I was prescribed prednisone and put on anti-inflamatory meds. Eventually the leg swelling went down but it took longer for the knee to heal. Neither my internist nor my uro thought it was related to the BCG, but it never happend before or since and it’s been almost a year. (I didn’t have any more BCG treatments).
I’m putting in a link to all of the PubMed abstracts that deal with reactive arthritis and Reiter syndrome associated with BCG. Then google reactive arthritis and Reiter syndrome to see which most closely resemble your symptoms. I don’t think you can take prednisone during your treatments. I hope your aggravated arthritis will go away after being treated.
All of the articles say that this is a very rare symptom of BCG. I beg to differ. Take the info from others on this website and the PubMed list to your Dr. Then they can’t dismiss it. Good luck!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&Term=reactive%20arthritis%20BCG&itool=QuerySuggestion
I’m with the gal with the beautiful hair. Two years ago I had some “calcium” (Arthritis?) taken off a vertebrae to alleviate nerve pinching. This was followed by a staph infection which required another surgery and 6 weeks of I-V antibiotics. I then began to experience pain “down there” which I rationalized as being simply a result of all the surgery. Finally, the bladder tumor was discovered and removed. Now, no Doc will ever put all this together as far as cause and effect, but I do have my opinions on all this and no one will convince me otherwise.
The back surgery did alleviate my sciatic pain and I can remember how good it felt lying in the hospital bed recovering from the TURB while dealing with that catheter. :ohmy: On April 21 I started the 6 weeks of BCG and was surprised at how little direct side effects I seemed to have with it. Within 2 months I was having stiffness in finger joints, the back/leg pain condition returned and my bunion again began to ache, amongst other things. An MRI showed the nerve impingement had returned in my back. But another back surgery is, of course, out of the question. So I’m now on a neurological medicine which makes me think like an idiot, something no one wants to be on for long term. But the good news is it’s supposed to cause weight loss! :woohoo:
So where does one go from here? Who knows? I guess, like most of us here, we all feel we’re in a box. We have no real place to go, do we? All roads seem to lead in undesirable directions, it seems.
But now, with the insight of Rosemary, I need to do some more research on this arthritis thing. Hey, maybe there’s a miracle here and if I can get finished with the BCG the arthritis will subside and the back pain might even diminish a bit, I can get off this medicine and can feel less like a Zombie again. I can dream, can’t I? :silly:
Bob
T1 G3
Age 66
DX April 2008
TURB April 2008
Last BCG (#15) April 2009
Had tennis elbow 5 years ago for 6 months. It has come back with BCG. If that is all i incur I’ll live with it but, still no fun. Rosemary, I believe you have hit the nail of the head. There is a relationship!
DX 5/6/2008 TAG3 papillary tumor .5 CM in size. 2 TURBS followed by 6 instillations of BCG weekly with a second round of 6 after a 6 week wait.
Okay, Dave, I’m gonna use my brain here again….:woohoo:
Before BCG – No arthritis
2 weeks after 12th installation, I can barely walk to my car, much less fasten my seat belt! (Much less zip my pants!)
To me, that’s a no brainer. I did have to write to Dr Lamm in order to get an affirmative answer, and even then I had to convince my Urologist of the connection. Once he was convinced, he wrote me this strange letter about agreeing to administer BCG but making me responsible for the risks…
The last time I talked with the Rheumologist he said that the BCG “triggered” (as opposed to induced) arthritis made sense to him. He liked to tell me stories about when he was a Duke resident, the residents would inject each other with BCG to see what kind of reactions that they would get. He said that BCG was like aspirin and that you would get 1000 different results with 1000 different people.
(Injecting each other with BCG? I guess Kicks just keep getting harder to find!)
As for me and my house, I don’t have to have a Doctor to tell me where this arthritis came from. I know where it came from…
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Thanks for the compliment, Slab!!
______________________Spelling police!! RHEUMATOLOGIST
Rosemary
Age – 55
T1 G3 – Tumor free 2 yrs 3 months
Dx January 2006Sign In to reply.
