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Questions on BCG vs Mitomycin and Oncovite

11 years 1 month ago #25207 by ejwright
Thanks for the advice - I finally switched to one of the top cancer hospital in the country after the 2nd TURBT and know I'm now in good hands. Congratulations on being cancer-free for so long.

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11 years 1 month ago #25191 by Alan
Mike,

Thanks for the links/info. It's a crazy world of medicine! One year we hear don't do this and the next year it's the opposite. Perhaps the best advice we all have heard over the years is everything in moderation, nothing in excess.

Alan

DX 5/6/2008 TAG3 papillary tumor .5 CM in size. 2 TURBS followed by 6 instillations of BCG weekly with a second round of 6 after a 6 week wait.

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11 years 1 month ago - 11 years 1 month ago #25182 by mmc
Here's the graph. Click on it to make it bigger so you can read it. Pink line is Oncovite and Green line is multivitamin.


Age 54
10/31/06 dx CIS (TisG3) non-invasive (at 47)
9/19/08 TURB/TUIP dx Invasive T2G3
10/8/08 RC neobladder(at 49)
2/15/13 T4G3N3M1 distant metastases(at 53)
9/2013 finished chemo -cancer free again
1/2014 ct scan results....distant mets
2/2014 ct result...spread to liver, kidneys, and lymph...
Attachments:

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11 years 1 month ago #25181 by mmc
Dr. Lamm's web page has a chart indicating his testing results.

I can't figure out how to import the image with the chart, so go to:
http://www.bcgoncology.com/treatment/vitamins.html to see it.

I read some of the study material back in 2006 before I ordered it.




High Dose Vitamins (Oncovite) in Bladder Cancer

Nutrition plays an important role in the development of cancer. Dietary factors such as increased fat and animal protein, especially when broiled, can promote development of cancer, but many foods such as soy, garlic, cruciferous vegetables, fruits, tea, and even some chocolates have beneficial ingredients such as antioxidants that may reduce the risk of cancer. With a healthy diet and life style, which includes regular exercise and avoidance of carcinogens including tobacco, supplemental vitamins may not be needed. Many of us, however, may benefit from supplemental vitamins. Here's how they work:

Vitamin A, important for cell differentiation, has been shown to inhibit development of bladder cancer in animal studies and some epidemiologic studies have suggest that increased Vitamin A intake lowers the risk of developing bladder cancer. High doses of Vitamin A and the related derivative Etretinate have had some success in the treatment and prevention of bladder cancer.

Vitamin B6 stimulates the immune system and alters the breakdown of the amino acid tryptophane to reduce chemicals that have been implicated in the development of bladder cancer. A Veteran's Administration study found that Vitamin B6 reduced bladder tumor recurrence, but subsequent trials were unsuccessful.

Vitamin C also stimulates the immune system and is an important antioxidant that blocks many carcinogens. Epidemiologic studies suggest increased Vitamin C intake reduces risk of bladder cancer. Animal studies are inconsistent, but Vitamin C can prevent and even reverse malignant transformation of cells cultured in the laboratory.

Vitamin E, also an antioxidant and immune stimulant, is associated with a reduced risk of cancer. Animal studies show a 30 to 60% reduction in cancer with Vitamin E administration.

Other vitamins including folic acid and Vitamin D also appear to reduce the risk of cancer. In a randomized comparison of standard multiple vitamins versus high doses of vitamins A, B6, C, E and zinc in patients with bladder cancer treated with BCG we found a statistically significant 40% reduction in bladder tumor recurrence. Since that time additional vitamins have been reported to reduce cancer growth, and these have been added to the preparation. The dose for bladder cancer patients is two tablets twice a day, reduced to a total of three tablets a day for those under 100 lbs.

While vitamins are generally recognized as safe, side effects can occur with high doses. Because of the high dose of vitamin A, Oncovite should be strictly avoided in anyone who might become pregnant. Vitamin A can also cause liver malfunction, and tests of liver function should be done yearly. Because of the maximal doses of several vitamins, other vitamins should not be taken with Oncovite.

The benefit of high dose vitamins is currently being evaluated again in patients receiving optimal BCG maintenance therapy with or without interferon alfa.

(See website for ingredients of Oncovite and graph related to recurrence rate).

Mike

Age 54
10/31/06 dx CIS (TisG3) non-invasive (at 47)
9/19/08 TURB/TUIP dx Invasive T2G3
10/8/08 RC neobladder(at 49)
2/15/13 T4G3N3M1 distant metastases(at 53)
9/2013 finished chemo -cancer free again
1/2014 ct scan results....distant mets
2/2014 ct result...spread to liver, kidneys, and lymph...

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11 years 1 month ago - 11 years 1 month ago #25180 by Alan
Dr. Denny on his webcast from MD Anderson a few months ago indicated that Oncovite had no supporting studies about it's efficacy (hope I am using the correct wordage). Not trying to start any debates as Dr. Lamm has been most kind to all of us, he has even taken time to answer directly a question I had once. Also, good nutrition can't hurt. Not sure where the link is anymore but, it was about an hours webcast back in November/2008?

DX 5/6/2008 TAG3 papillary tumor .5 CM in size. 2 TURBS followed by 6 instillations of BCG weekly with a second round of 6 after a 6 week wait.

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11 years 1 month ago #25164 by mmc
The Mitomycin is supposed to be easier on your system than the BCG. They tried me on it after I failed BCG. I wound up failing that also though.

I bought the Oncovite but I found out later I was taking the wrong doseage. I took the doseage indicated on the bottle, which is one pill a day.

Dr. Lamm's doseage for recurrence prevention is two pills a day (I think). Double check.

My cancer came back in any case but I suspected it would since I didn't do well on BCG or Mitomycin. Can't really say the Oncovite didn't work since I was on a lower dose.

Mike

Age 54
10/31/06 dx CIS (TisG3) non-invasive (at 47)
9/19/08 TURB/TUIP dx Invasive T2G3
10/8/08 RC neobladder(at 49)
2/15/13 T4G3N3M1 distant metastases(at 53)
9/2013 finished chemo -cancer free again
1/2014 ct scan results....distant mets
2/2014 ct result...spread to liver, kidneys, and lymph...

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